Windows update 23H2

[Dick Berg]

Hi William,

A notification for this update just appeared in my Windows Update settings. It seems to have a lot of new things I'll never use, but there are some new development tools. Do you have any insights about 23H2?

[Bob Denny]

No insights. Both my WIndows 10 and 11 systems are at 22H2 and they are "up to date". I'll wait to see what happens :-) I'min the midst of a couple of development projects and don't want to be sidetracked for what looks like a load of fluff. They will keep the security and stability of 22H2 updated for a while yet.

[William Bristow]

Hello Dick.

Not seen that one yet on any of my systems though the observatory PC (OnLogic Industrial PC) had to be “coaxed” into loading Win 11 22H2 last year, since the hardware was not officially supported by Microsoft for Win 11, and I might just leave that as-is until I replace the computer next year.

I could update one of my Win 11 VM’s on the Mac but I have no astro hardware connected to that so it wouldn’t be much use for real-world testing.

TBH, I’m finding the latest consumer builds of Win 11 just too much bells-and-whistles these days, loaded with far too many unnecessary and distracting background processes, every time I start up the observatory Win 11 PC there’s another batch of useless new Microsoft apps, news feeds and other notifications installed, it’s like playing whack-a-mole, every time I find out how to turn off one unnecessary “feature” another two pop-up to take its place!

If I learn anything over the next few days I’ll update this topic and let you know what I find.

William.

[Bob Denny]

TBH, I’m finding the latest consumer builds of Win 11 just too much bells-and-whistles these days, loaded with far too many unnecessary and distracting background processes, every time I start up the observatory Win 11 PC there’s another batch of useless new Microsoft apps, news feeds and other notifications installed, it’s like playing whack-a-mole, every time I find out how to turn off one unnecessary “feature” another two pop-up to take its place!

It's true. I wish I could reach out to the old guys at Microsoft like Jonathan Fay. MS really really does need a "Workhorse" edition of Windows without all of the coolio shovelware(*). Never mind the Linux bigots (and I like Linux for what it is!)... Windows is a great workhorse OS but (1) it must have stable hardware not $5 Chinese video adapters, el cheapo RAM modules, bad USB components, or running on Uncle Festus' 10 year old PC from the storage garage, (2) It has to be kept up to date, especially w.r.t. security(**), (3) you must manage the aggressive automatic updating so it doesn't interfere with your workload, and (4) tend to power management so it doesn't shut stuff down and kill your ops (call 1-800-GRETA).

(*) Shovelware came from Gursharan Sidhu of Apple. He was the architect of AppleTalk and AFP file sharing. I loved working with him in the old days
.
(**) In my opinion, Microsoft Security Essentials is entirely adequate, low profile, and effective. The MSE team does not have a profit center. Their mission is to protect Windows users and thus the reputation of Windows. I have never had malware or virus infection on any of my Windows systems.

[Dick Berg]

Thanks, both, for your valuable "non"-insights. 23H2 is not something *I* need, but I suppose one day we'll be obliged (i.e. required) to install it. I keep up with all the minor updates that come along, and it's been my experience so far that none of them have interfered with power management, which I nevertheless check every time.

For many years I've used Norton on all my computers, but I am growing unhappier by the year with the constant "upselling" messages that appear frequently, especially for "new" capabilities that I have already installed. William, I know you're a user of Windows Defender (MSE?), I think, and Bob, you've vouched here for MSE. Do I dare remove Norton from my observatory computer and rely on MSE? It would be easy to do, and if there's no risk......

[Eric Dose]

Some semi-well-founded notes along these lines:

(1) Windows Pro continues to treat me much better than does Windows Home. Win 11 Pro runs my new mega-PC at home (24 cores, 4 SSDs) very smoothly, and I have just not seen much fluff. Except too many notifications, for sure--but when I dismiss them all the first time, most don't return. This differs from the nannying I hear about Win Home esp 11.
(2) Windows Defender works fine for my observatory PC (fast laptop from 2015, sticking with Win 10 Pro for now, 250 miles from my home and office). I keep zero personal info on that PC. Norton Security is super-powerful so it's good for my home and personal info, but I would never allow its complexity and interference near my clean, clean, clean observatory PC.
(3) I do use Dropbox to move files (ca. 5 GB/night) between office and observatory PC. The trick to keeping personal info on Dropbox but strictly away from my observatory PC is to set up (and pay a bit) for a Family Room on my Dropbox account, and put only the Family Room on the observatory computer. The observatory PC never has any access to, never even knows about anything I have on normal Dropbox. Works a treat.
(4) Friends don't let friends use MS OneDrive. Just don't, unless you're super into nightmares in which case yeah go for it.

[Bob Denny]

Friends don't let friends use MS OneDrive. Just don't, unless you're super into nightmares in which case yeah go for it.

You are so right. I didn't kn ow I was doing it when I upgraded my Windos 10 system and now I am STUCK WITH IT having hijacked my Desktop, Documents, etc. folders. I had it out with MS support all the way to phone call, and finally told the guy to forget it and hung up. I'm stuck.

[William Bristow]

Thanks, both, for your valuable "non"-insights. 23H2 is not something *I* need, but I suppose one day we'll be obliged (i.e. required) to install it

William, I know you're a user of Windows Defender (MSE?), I think, and Bob, you've vouched here for MSE. Do I dare remove Norton from my observatory computer and rely on MSE? It would be easy to do, and if there's no risk......

Hello Dick.

I’d be taking a big risk advising you to uninstall Norton and rely solely on Windows Defender since everybody's requirements will be dictated by how they use their computers and what for.

It’s virtually impossible to find any truly independent anti-virus performance reviews with most so called “expert” web reviews being nothing more than opaque websites owned, or financed directly or indirectly, by the AV software vendors themselves.

For basic protection of a dedicated observatory computer where you don’t spend hours browsing websites or handle e-mail with attachments, then Microsoft Defender is good enough, IMO.

For an observatory computer that also doubles up as a home/business computer, where you or your family are accessing your bank, shopping on-line, using social media etc., sharing the same computer, then the risks are higher, esp. threats such as from key loggers, identity theft, password protection and management, stolen personal user profiles from previous website hacks circulating on the dark-web etc.

To cover those threats you would need something more sophisticated than Defender and Norton is probably one of the better rated (we used to ship our Windows based medical systems with Norton built-in) although again, on-line ratings depend on who funded the test and how much the website gets paid for every viewer they link across to the AV providers website.

My own dedicated Win 11 observatory computer relies on Defender but I don’t browse the web, use e-mail, or install software from unknown sources and Windows Firewall is closed to everything except the absolutely essential ports necessary for the astronomy software and Windows Update.

My home computers are all Macs, or Windows VM’s running on a Mac (each VM being protected by Defender), and the Macs are all protected with Intego AV, which is quite a basic (and comparatively expensive) AV product these days, but when I tried other AV products on my Macs in the past the result was usually to make the Macs so sluggish in everyday tasks as to make them virtually unusable and Apple say that Macs built-in AV protection is strong enough not to need anything else.

But for threats outside of the local computing hardware environment, phishing protection, dark-web monitoring, social media monitoring etc., then something more advanced would be needed.

Whether Defender gives sufficient protection comes down to intended usage of the computer and what level of risk you are comfortable with.

Sorry Dick, there’s no simple answer to that question….

William.

[Dick Berg]

Thanks, Eric, William and Bob, for your generous comments and the time taken to think and write about this, after the not-so-subtle transition from 23H2 to Norton.

I have a very lean W10 Pro observatory computer - no email app; no intentional family secrets; using Firefox for connection to the hardware interfaces on the LAN that present web pages (e.g. IP switch, ...); uninstalled OneDrive (better to say, disconnected it); don't sign in to Microsoft; no cloud storage; WiFi is off - I'm connected by fiber/Ethernet 500' to the router in the house. I do use "my-sky" once in a long while.

ACP still gets slammed unsuccessfully EVERY DAY multiple times by hackers trying to get past the ACP login, but not a single breach ever in ~20 years. (Isthisthankstomy36characterpassword?) The DART logs capture all this gruesome detail, and reverse IPs show they originate from all over the world. I guess a lot of people who are still thirteen years old have nothing better to do in their lives.

I'm going to hold off on 23H2, but it seems like I should be pretty confident using Defender and turning off Norton, or even uninstalling it.

Thanks again.

[William Bristow]

Hello Dick.

Just as a finale to your question....

As we have a week of cloudy skies ahead and I was looking for something to do today I made a new disk clone for the observatory computer with 22H2 running and then updated to 23H2.

I had to use the Rufus app again to create a special bootable installer for Windows 11 23H2 from the Microsoft Win 11 ISO download, with the mandatory TPM and Video Card requirements skipped, since the observatory computer can't be upgraded with a TPM module or have the on-board Intel graphics upgraded.

After 23H2 was installed ACP had to "repair" itself after it detected changes in the registry, and all the serial com ports had re-enumerated themselves, so I had to reconfigure the com port #'s for all the serial devices, but apart from that there were no other problems.

Looking at the Windows desktop and the installed apps there's not much apparent difference between 22H2 and 23H2 and until the weather improves I can't test ACP functionally but If I find any problems I can quickly revert back to 22H2 from the disk clone I made before updating.

If I do find any problems over the coming weeks I'll update the thread once the weather here improves and I can test ACP and Scheduler properly.

William.