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Hello Bob,
Although this previous thread was closed, I must reopen it because our plate solving problems have resurfaced...
Please consider the attached log from 2/14 showing the following message repeatedly:
''** The time limit for plate solving has expired.''
Until then we had no more issues, as illustrated in the log of the 2/3 session (as an example).
We did not change any settings in ACP Preferences (see attached image) nor in the Planner.
Please advise.
Thanks a lot, as always.
Christian.
"Time limit" is probably the least useful error message possible for diagnosis: the cause could be your mount, camera, catalog, plate-solver, or even the RA,Dec fed to the plate-solver by MaxIm etc.
So let me pose 4 questions I use to diagnose plate-solving, in order:
- On visual inspection, is the image any good?
- On visual inspection, does the image show the sky region you expected?
- Can you plate-solve the image in MaxIm, using a basic catalog (GSC or ATLAS)?
- Why are you using the catalog you're using? (I haven't used USNO A2 for many years--ATLAS is far superior, and even GSC should be sufficient for your image field of view).
Good luck with this.
Christian -- I go with Eric's #4 suggestion:
19:18:14 Calculated field of view (arcmin): H = 42.9 V = 28.6
The GSC should be entirely adequate. The USNO A2.0 has become old and stale due to no proper motions. I have updated the article on catalog choice and downloading to downgrade A2.0: Downloading and Using PinPoint Reference Catalogs (Updated Feb 2025)
Try switching to the GSC.
Hi
Going back to GSC catalog did not fix the issue. Still plate solving failures as shown on the attached log.
Any idea highly appreciated!
Thanks!
Hi Christian.
Bob is away until Wednesday, 5th March.
I see in the log that plate solves fail right from the first autofocus run, does your telescope have a very large focus change with temperature?
I found that the first autofocus run of a session would often report plate-solve errors and autofocus failed because the focus point when the telescope ended the last session in the very cold early morning was very different to the focus point when starting the session the next evening in warmer conditions.
For a while I manually focused the telescope at the beginning of the evening session before starting up ACP and FocusMax to ensure the focus was good enough for the first plate-solve and autofocus run, eventually I set up FocusMax to use temperature compensation and now FocusMax always adjusts the focuser according to ambient temperature before plate-solving and beginning the first autofocus run.
The other thing I notice in the log is that ACP (or FocusMax?) is selecting the blue filter for plate-solving during the autofocus run, is that a real necessity or a configuration error?
I’m not sure the blue filter is the best choice for plate-solve and autofocus for an RC optical system and I would have expected luminance, or maybe red, to be the right choice for plate-solving the initial telescope position for autofocusing.
If nothing above is relevant can you provide some sample .fit images from the run that failed to solve, I don’t think there’s much else can be learned from the log alone, also the .fits headers can be checked to see if they have the right pixel size and binning information which PinPoint needs for a successful plate-solve.
William.
Hello William,
Thank you for chiming in.
The focuser is not very sensitive to temperature change.
As for the filter used for plate solving, I have set it as the "0" (see attached) filter which should be Luminance (please refer to the filter numbering in Maxim attached).
Why would ACP choose the Blue filter for plate solving in such condition?... Really wondering!
Thanks again!
Christian
http://forums.dc3.com/image/png;base...BJRU5ErkJggg==
Hi Christian.
If you are using FocusMax Star Selection, see > ACP Preferences > Imaging Tab > bottom of window > FocusMax > Select from choice of "FocusMax MultiStar" FocusMax Acquire Star" or "ACP Star Selection".
I'm not certain but I think if you have selected "FocusMax AcquireStar" in ACP for the autofocus method then the choice of filter during the autofocus run is configured in FocusMax > Preferences > Autofocus tab > Filter, and also see FocusMax > Preferences > AcquireStar tab > bottom of Window "Pointing filter".
Can't think of any other reason why the autofocus run is trying to use the blue filter...
William.
Hi again.
Stangely enough, I do not see the same paths that you're describing. I am using the "FocusMax AcquireStar" selection in ACP but for instance, I have no way of selecting the "pointing filter" in any of the FocusMax tabs...
Really puzzling!
Hi Christian.
Connect to the camera in FocusMax and then the drop-down menus for filter choice will be populated in FocusMax Preferences.
Give me an hour or so and I’ll attach some screenshots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Hennes
These are screenshots from my system of FocusMax Preferences for use when FocusMax AcquireStar is selected as the autofocus method in ACP.
I don't use FocusMax AcquireStar routinely because FocusMax does not use a horizon mask and my observatory is located next to some tall buildings and trees and unfortunately when FocusMax is configured to use its internal AcquireStar method then the telescope is often trying to point to focus stars behind the obstructions.
For that reason I only use ACP Autofocus which does respect the horizon mask.
In the screen shots I've highlighted in red the important settings for when FocusMax is using AcquireStar for the autofocus method and to keep ACP's selection of filter for pointing and focusing you have to select "Current Filter" where shown.
For AcquireStar to know where the focus stars are and to find it's way around you have to choose an appropriate star catalogue on the PinPoint tab.
All the other important settings for using FocusMax AcquireStar as the autofocus method are in the red boxes, such as allowing the the telescope to slew to the zenith and minimum altitude (horizon) etc.
Most of this is outside of ACP's remit and when using FocusMax AcquireStar as the autofocus method then all these FocusMax settings have to be tested and proved to work reliably before configuring ACP to use AcquireStar because ACP just hands over full control of where the telescope is pointing, which filters are used for focus and pointing and which star catalogue is used for plate-solving while an Autofocus is performed.
If you want ACP to be in full control of where the telescope is pointing, which star catalogue is used to find the focus star and the filter used for plate-solving then use ACP Autofocus.
If nothing I've posted is relevant then Bob will be back tomorrow and will be better able to help....
HTH
William.
Attachment 18055
Attachment 18056
Attachment 18057
Attachment 18058
Hi again.
Thanks a lot for your efforts: screenshots and all!
The problem is that I don't have the same windows than those that you're showing in FM.
As I mentioned before I don't seem to be able to select the filter to be used for pointing / plate solving (see attached screenshots).
Why FM is selecting the blue filter remains a mystery to me. But what is even stranger is why it has become suddenly impossible to plate solve when no settings had been changed.
This scope is located in Chile under pristine skies wtih basically 360 degrees clear horizon. I checked the images: they are fine (no cloud or anything).
Thanks a gain: really appreciated!
Chrsitian
Hi Christian.
Ok, you’re running an older version of FocusMax than me, v4, while I’m running v5.
Unfortunately I don’t have any copies of v4 still installed on any of the PC’s or VM’s that I have access to and I can’t remember how v4 is configured for AcquireStar.
If you can supply a download link to a few of the images that won’t plate-solve so that Bob can test them against a working copy of PinPoint and hopefully he will also know why the wrong filter (blue) is being selected for pointing and focusing while FocusMax is running an AcquireStar autofocus, even though ACP is configured to use filter 0 (luminance) for FocusMax v4 AcquireStar autofocus.
00:57:36 Selecting Luminance filter (0) for imaging
00:57:36 Do requested auto-focus...
00:57:38 [flip check: Tn=300s HAc=-10887s GW=F HAz=-10587s DWz=F WF=no]
00:57:40 Switching from Red to Blue filter for auto-focus
00:57:40 Focus change of -26 steps required
00:57:47 (AF will use 16 bit readout mode)
00:57:47 Starting FocusMax AcquireStar autofocus...
William.
Hi all --
William thank you for helping. Christian I moved this to the FocusMax section on the Comm Center here. PinPoint is not involved in selecting the filter. FocusMax 4 (the older version you're using) does not appear to be able to set the filter used for AcquireStar (I just looked at the manual).
Here is a link to our FITS Image drop https://www.dropbox.com/request/zgQBoSgqH84WNNO6BSuN Use this to upload a few images and I'll look to see why they don't solve. Let me know what catalogs were in use when they failed to solve. I have your Field of View info from the logs you posted at the beginning of this thread (that shows you using A2.0 which I recommended against). You did say you're using GSC. If that's what was used for your uploads, that that's fine for your nearly half degree FOV.
Hi Bob, Christian....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denny
I dug out an old Windows laptop and installed FocusMax v4 together with my ACP config files.
Bob, Did you notice these lines in Christian's ACP log:
00:57:36 === Starting filter group 1 of 4 ===00:57:36 Selecting Luminance filter (0) for imaging
00:57:36 Do requested auto-focus...
00:57:38 [flip check: Tn=300s HAc=-10887s GW=F HAz=-10587s DWz=F WF=no]
00:57:40 Switching from Red to Blue filter for auto-focus
00:57:40 Focus change of -26 steps required
00:57:47 (AF will use 16 bit readout mode)
00:57:47 Starting FocusMax AcquireStar autofocus...
00:57:47 21:57:47
00:57:47 21:57:47 ** Beginning AcquireStar Sequence **
00:57:48 21:57:47 Running under automation: True
00:57:48 21:57:48 FocusMax Version: 4.1.0.102
00:57:48 21:57:48 Date: 02/03/2025 21:57:48
00:57:48 21:57:48 System: RC360_Moravian
00:57:49 21:57:49 Telescope RA: 09:59:55.6 Dec: -29:35:59.9
00:57:49 21:57:49 Camera: ASCOM
00:57:49 21:57:49 Focuser: ASCOM Focuser Driver for Astrosib_Focuser.
00:57:49 21:57:49 Filter: Blue (slot 4)
00:57:49 21:57:49 ...Plate solve method: PinPoint
00:57:49 21:57:49 ...Catalog: USNO-A2.0
When FocusMax AcquireStar began the autofocus run the Blue filter was selected despite that Christian's ACP configuration called for filter 0 (Luminance) to be the autofocus filter:
Attachment 18061
Christian...
I don't have access to a Moravian camera and there's only so much I can look at here but can you confirm that the filter settings in the Moravian Camera Filter Wheel ASCOM configuration are the same as you have populated in MaxIm's FilterWheel configuration, I believe that the Moravian Filter Wheel ASCOM driver setup takes precedence over whatever you enter in the MaxIm config:
I can't show a screen shot of the Moravian Filter Wheel because I don't have one to connect to but this screen shot shows where you should be checking if you have a Moravian camera and wheel to verify that the Moravian filter configuration is the same as you have configured in MaxIm:
Attachment 18062
If you make any changes to the FilterWheel configuration in the Moravian ASCOM driver and/or MaxIm setup then after connecting to the Camera and FilterWheel in FocusMax press the "Reset filter info" button in FocusMax setup tab to reload the updated filter sequence configuration into FocusMax:
Attachment 18064
The plate-solving catalogue that is used by FocusMax v4/v5 during a FocusMax AcquireStar autofocus routine is not the same one that is used by ACP for pointing and plate-solving, you can configure separate catalogues to use with ACP and with FocusMax.
For FocusMax plate solving during an AcquireStar autofocus run select the GSC catalogue, not USNO-A2:
Attachment 18063
I can't think of much else that might be useful here, you could look at the FocusMax v4 .ini file in Notepad when FocusMax is closed, there is an entry for Autofocus filter but I don't know if this is telling you which filter will be used for focusing during a FocusMax autofocus run or if this was the last filter used during an autofocus run, a question for Steve Brady I think...
Attachment 18065
William.
Wow that's quite an analysis William. And yes I saw that ACP was selecting Blue, and that's what is being used by FocusMax.
Christian, please attach your FilterInfo.txt file. Is it possible that you have Blue as the "reference" filter? That's the filter used when focusing, with the offsets applied to that focus position.
Hi
The FilterInfo file is attached.
Thanks!
I'm sorry I have very limited time today so I'll make this brief. When you ran the FocusOffsets.vbs script back in 2019 you told it to use filter 3 (0-based, which is filter 4 in MaxIm 1-based) for the reference filter. I'm sorry it's not clear that, once you set up focus offsets, that filter number in ACP Preferences is overridden.
Attachment 18067
Per your image from this post, blue is #4 and your FilterInfo.txt file lists that filter (#3 0-based) as reference. This is why ACP is focusing using blue.
; FilterInfo created by FocusOffsets.vbs
; 10-Aug-19
; offset,ref-filt,ptg-filt,af-minmag,af-maxmag
137,3,3,7,9
26,3,3,7,9
-67,3,3,7,9
0,3,3,7,9
-36,3,3,2,4
145,3,3,2,4
-24,3,3,2,4
Your best course of action is to re-do your FilterInfo using the Focusffsets.vbs script. When you run it, it will ask you "Reference filter number (0-based, see list below):" and give you a list of filters by number 0-based. Choose 0 for Luminance or 1 for Red. Then let it go.
Here's a map to the details.
Attachment 18068
Once you have FocusMax focusing through Luminance or Red, you should get better plate solving reliability.
Hi!
I re-did the filter offsets as advised, as shown on the filterinfo file attached. However, the issues are not resolved.
Please review the attached files:
Log of the last imaging session illustrating the inconsistencies with plate solving:
At 00:59:32 the image ...@004835 was plate solved.
At 01:11:29 the image ...@005936 was not plate solved.
Both images were done under the exact same conditions. Screenshots of the images are attached for reference (I could upload the raw files onto a platform as needed).
They were done consecutively under the same clear sky.
The image that ACP could not plate solved was plate solved by Maxim.
Any idea / advice highly appreciated!
Thanks
Charistian
Hi Christian.
The log shows that FocusMax was unable to complete an autofocus run successfully during the entire session and the only difference I can see in the posted images is a softening of focus between the solved image and the unsolved image.
In the absence of anything else obvious, or that Bob can spot, try making a couple of small changes to FocusMax Preferences to try and get it to plate solve successfully and complete an autofocus run when AcquireStar is being used.
FocusMax Preferences > AcquireStar > Plate Solve tab:
You are currently using Bin 1x1 when FocusMax plate solves after selecting a focus star and that is when FocusMax is failing as it can't plate solve after slewing to find the focus star.
Change the binning for plate solving in FocusMax Plate Solve tab to Bin 4x4 and check that the X/Y pixel scale is set to the un-binned image scale of your system (0.28 arc/sec-pixel I think?).
I assume from the pixel count that this Moravian is a CMOS camera in which case binning won't improve sensitivity but it will reduce the number of warm pixel clusters detected as false stars and reduce the time taken to plate solve.
The log shows that AcquireStar plate solving is using the central 90% region of the sensor, in FocusMax V5 that is configurable on the Plate Solve Tab but I can't find a copy anywhere of the FocusMax V4 guide that shows the PlateSolve tab and I don't know if that option is configurable or not in V4.
Check the AcquireStar Plate Solve tab in FocusMax V4 and if the option is there to configure the size of the CCD central region then change it from 90% to 75% to reduce the plate solve field size slightly and reduce the number of stars detected to give PinPoint less work to do and get a better star match away from any field distortion at the edges of the sensor.
Once you have FocusMax AcquireStar successfully plate solving and completing an autofocus run every time it is called, and the images are sharply focused, then you can turn to look at any Plate Solve errors under ACP. Right now I suspect the two failures are somehow linked with the FocusMax AcquireStar autofocus failure leading on sometime later to ACP Plate Solve issues as the focus softens later into the session.
Hopefully Bob will be along soon with something better than I can find....
William.
The FilterInfo looks OK now. It is using the correct (luminance) filter for pointing and focusing. Also I note the large pointing error that ACP corrected after the startup autocus:
00:25:18 Doing auto-center...
...
00:25:33 Plate-solve pointing image.
...
00:25:36 Pointing error is 18.238 arcmin @ angle 104.98
00:25:36 True focal length is 2799.3 mm.
Since MaxIm uses PinPoint for solving, this means that your PinPoint settings in MaxIm and ACP are different. The plate scale could be different. The pointing update and first successful final image solve show a real focal length (-> plate scale) of 2799 mm.Quote:
The image that ACP could not plate solved was plate solved by Maxim.
Check the focal length you have set in ACP:
Attachment 18081
Christian,
Here are the important log entries in your log.
(Setup) 00:25:36 Pointing error is 18.238 arcmin @ angle 104.98
This is the result of all that focusing effort and finally getting to center the target perfectly. This is the point in time Bob's comment referred to.
Then your imaging started as planned, with the first three images solving correctly with the target spot on and no re-centering correction applied.
Image 1 00:37:25 Pointing error is 0.063 arcmin @ angle 10.70
Image 2 00:48:31 Pointing error is 0.066 arcmin @ angle 12.77
Image 3 00:59:32 Pointing error is 0.066 arcmin @ angle 11.89
What happened next is hard to determine. It could be a one-off issue. I think you'll never know. Perhaps, if you found the "focal length" setting in Preferences/Telescope tab was off some, as Bob suggested, then it could be close enough to some computational margin to affect the plate solution one way or the other (solved or not solved). I'm just thinking out loud. The images 3 and 4 certainly look practically identical, except as William pointed out. You would have thought it should have been solved. If you open Image 3 and Image 4 in MaxIm, you could use the Pixel Math function in the Processing menu to subtract the two and see if there's any obvious artifacts (beside the satellite trail and the cursor cross) that might spoil the plate solution.
Image 4 01:11:29 FAILED - Will skip final image solves until target changes
From then on, ACP does not try to plate solve all the rest of the images. This is a Prefences/General tab setting you can override by checking the first check box. In that case, even though you fail to solve image 4, ACP will go on to try solving image 5 and all the rest. The penalty is, in your case, about 3 seconds for each plate solve. If indeed it was just a one-off error failing to solve image 4, then the rest should solve (well, except for other one-off failures...). I think you can tolerate that extra 3-second overhead, since you were expecting to do a plate solve anyway. You might want to check that tick box.
Image 5 to Image 15 First image plate-solve failed, skip solves until target changes
Below you see that even after a flip, which generates a pointing update, the pointing update solves, with results similar to that at the beginning, yet after that ACP skips plate solving the remaining images.
Flip + pointing update 03:11:37 Pointing error is 16.546 arcmin @ angle 71.31
Image 16 to Image 35 First image plate-solve failed, skip solves until target changes
Incidentally, have you tried solving Image 4 (and the rest, for that matter) with Visual PinPoint? It, too, uses the same PinPoint engine that ACP and MaxIm use. That would be an easy and quick way to get the image center and distortion parameters.
Thanks for the additional analysis Dick.